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Mad Men: Mystery Date

Yay! Another episode with Roger and Peggy. Who knew I would find them so entertaining together?

Episode 4: Mystery Date
Don runs into someone from his past. Joan makes a decision, and Roger gives Peggy extra work.

Come share you thoughts. 

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( 22 comments — Leave a comment )
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:39 am (UTC)
Hooray for Joan!

Because I was utterly unable to see Greg without thinking "Rapist Greg," I am glad that it was written that Joan didn't forget or forgive, and that it was referenced implicitly. F--k him, you know?

I can't help but wonder how us knowing whose baby Kevin is factors into Joan's thoughts. But Joan was planning to pretend that Kevin is Greg's son, so I have to conclude that Joan's sole motivation was getting Greg out of her life.

Man, what a great episode.
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:44 am (UTC)
My mom was a student nurse in Rockford in the summer of '66, and it occurs to me that we haven't talked much about Richard Speck. I'll ask her, but I suspect that was even more real for her than it was for Sally.

Speaking of Sally: Good God, Kiernan Shipka is a fantastic young actress. Jon Hamm pointed out in an interview that she's even adopted some of JJ's Betty mannerisms. Something tells me she's going to have a career long after Mad Men.

How delicious was the Roger/Peggy scene? "What did you have in mind?" Hee! Drunk Peggy is even more fun than High Harry.

But ... never has a glance at a purse said so much, right?
gatsbyfan
Apr. 9th, 2012 01:06 pm (UTC)
Hooray for Joan!
I have a feeling America did a collect Yay! at that point. I know there were quite a few in my twitter feed.

I loved Joan's line: I'm glad the army makes you feel like a man.

When the soldier stopped at Greg's table and gave him a salute, it really hit it home. Greg is someone in the military. At home... not so much. It's no wonder he wishes to continue his service.
gatsbyfan
Apr. 9th, 2012 01:30 pm (UTC)
Ah Richard Speck. My mom was in nursing school at the time too. We talked about it in the past when he died. Obviously that was a big news item around here. I think it was more about the end of innocence. The crime was so gruesome.

The thing that surprised me was that I had no idea it was such a national story. Although, it make sense considering it was horrific.

Good God, Kiernan Shipka is a fantastic young actress.
She really is. I loved her on the phone with Don. Don telling her to go outside: Stop complaining I don't want you to get rickets in that haunted mansion. Part of me thinks that something terrible is going to happen in that house because people keep alluding to it being creepy.

How delicious was the Roger/Peggy scene?
I love them. They need to do more scenes together! Good for Peggy for getting more money out of Roger. Though again, I have to question why he is carrying around so much cash. Perhaps that's why Lane can't afford anything. Roger keeps spending all the money.
gatsbyfan
Apr. 9th, 2012 01:35 pm (UTC)
I loved Don after the client pitch:
I'm on the verge of throwing you in front of a cab.

The client says sold and all of a sudden the new guy opens up his mouth and now they have to create a whole new campaign.

You know you almost got fired just now. -Ken's comment is spot on. Part of me wonders if Don had been feeling better if new guy would have suffered more.

But I still like him because he's just so awkward to watch.

Also, I liked the scene between Megan and Don. Megan knows about his past but doesn't like to actually see it. And who would. I thought it was interesting that in Don's dream he gives up and sleeps with the woman only to later kill her. I think he's really trying to stay faithful to Megan but it seems his demons might be fighting him.
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 04:56 pm (UTC)
How delicious was the Roger/Peggy scene? "What did you have in mind?"

I loved that! More Peggy and Roger, just like you all were hoping for. I agree -- new favorite pair.

When the soldier stopped at Greg's table and gave him a salute, it really hit it home. Greg is someone in the military. At home... not so much. It's no wonder he wishes to continue his service.

Exactly. And remember, Greg was really struggling, career-wise, until he joined the military. It's not that he's leaving Joan (when he re-enlists) as much as he's chasing his own identity.

I like the new guy. They first presented him as obnoxious and wow making a full pitch to the client for his original idea right in front of Don? Michael needs to listen carefully to Peggy and Ken.

And listen to Don too!
Don: "Know that everything I'm saying has an 'or else' after it..."

But I like the sympathetic touches they're adding to round him out. The dad scene...and I loved that he was the only one revolted by their fascination with the Speck case. I so agree with him -- they (and Betty's m-i-l) are absolutely delighted at the gory details and they are "sickos." Go Michael.

(I'm glad they brought up Alan Ginsberg in the last episode, cause I would have been confused. Alan Ginsberg DID work in advertising early in his life, so I thought for a second this was HIM, but they put that to rest.)
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 05:04 pm (UTC)
Also, I liked the scene between Megan and Don. Megan knows about his past but doesn't like to actually see it. And who would.

Yeah, Megan and Jane crack me up. It's a classic story: they met their philandering husbands when they were philanderers and to some extent because they were philanderers.* And now they want them to turn that off. And they don't want to know about the past. I think Megan, Don, Jane and Roger all thought things would be different in these marriages. I think the husbands were pretty sincere about that and I agree that Don's dream is about fighting his nature.

* I know Don wasn't with Betty when he slept with Megan, but still, he was the boss sleeping with the 22yo secretary and she certainly knew his reputation.
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 05:15 pm (UTC)
The thing that surprised me was that I had no idea it was such a national story. Although, it make sense considering it was horrific.
Did you notice where Sally passed out (I'm calling it that, since her grandmother gave her half a Seconal)? Under the couch, and I'm presuming it's because she read that that's how the ninth nurse survived.

Also, I liked the scene between Megan and Don. Megan knows about his past but doesn't like to actually see it. And who would.
Exactly. Megan understands that there were women in Don's life before her, and that because he's in the same line of work he was before, chance encounters are possible. She'd rather not be reminded that he was sleeping around while there was a Mrs. Don Draper, since, you know ...

I thought it was interesting that in Don's dream he gives up and sleeps with the woman only to later kill her. I think he's really trying to stay faithful to Megan but it seems his demons might be fighting him.
Eric Deggans totally spoiled this for me -- he hadn't previously live-Tweeted during MM, so I thought I was safe -- but knowing in advance it was a fever dream colored my assessment from the start. I don't think he's actually fighting to stay faithful to Megan, but the fever dream is about his subconscious fear of regressing. Seeing her in the elevator reminded him of his past.

I could be wrong -- this is Don Draper, with Don Draper's track record -- but if I think of all the things I've done in my dreams ... ;-)
flippet
Apr. 9th, 2012 08:59 pm (UTC)
but the fever dream is about his subconscious fear of regressing

Fear, yes - but also desire to. He left the door unlocked.

(It wasn't hard for me to know it was a dream from the start (though still shocking and creepy), because we see Megan leave the office reasonably early, and when Dead!Girl 'returns', not only is Don not how we left him - he's in the bed, not on top - it's clearly much later, and yet Megan's apparently not home yet. Didn't make sense.)
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 05:19 pm (UTC)
You know you almost got fired just now. -Ken's comment is spot on. Part of me wonders if Don had been feeling better if new guy would have suffered more.
Heh. He lacked the energy to properly punish Ginsberg for his transgressions.

But I still like him because he's just so awkward to watch.
Definitely. Don and Peggy wanted him for his talent, but he's lacking in the basic skill of Knowing When To Stop Talking.
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 05:54 pm (UTC)
Did you notice where Sally passed out (I'm calling it that, since her grandmother gave her half a Seconal)? Under the couch, and I'm presuming it's because she read that that's how the ninth nurse survived.

Yes! I thought that was a really striking shot. That's exactly what that was. I loved how they walked off to look for her as the camera panned down. Really nice.

I had the same thought when Don pushed the dead woman under the bed, in his dream.
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:04 pm (UTC)
dead woman under the bed,
I just found out that that was Madchen Amick! I know she's been in other things since Twin Peaks, but I'm going to presume I didn't recognize her because she wasn't wearing her Double-R Diner uniform. :)
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:20 pm (UTC)
Oh my gosh, I didn't recognize her at all! Thanks for that catch. :)
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:34 pm (UTC)
No problem; I was in full "Excited! Must Share" mode. :)

I didn't recognize her at all!
Nor did I! I had that vague thought of "I've seen her somewhere" but I would've never figured it out without looking it up or someone telling me.
flippet
Apr. 9th, 2012 09:07 pm (UTC)

I had the same thought when Don pushed the dead woman under the bed, in his dream.


Nice catch - yes, I'm sure it was related. We don't see Don taking in information about the case, but for most everyone else, it was all they could talk about, so I'm sure this was also partially his way of processing that.

The one 'under the bed' was the last one...he 'killed the last one' too, she didn't 'survive'. What does that mean for the list of women he's "worked with"? Is this his way of attempting to 'kill them all' - meaning, bury all of those relationships and assignations in the past? I think yes, in a way.

I agree, he is attempting to protect his relationship with Megan - I think he knows he's got a good thing. (Or, as good as it's likely to get, given who he is, the mistakes he's made, and the stage in his life.) But I think both his giving in, in the dream, and his burst of violence rather freaked him out.

yeesh...didn't complete the thought, but *really* have fly. Back later on!
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 09:45 pm (UTC)
The one 'under the bed' was the last one...he 'killed the last one' too, she didn't 'survive'. What does that mean for the list of women he's "worked with"? Is this his way of attempting to 'kill them all' - meaning, bury all of those relationships and assignations in the past? I think yes, in a way.

Very interesting!

We don't see Don taking in information about the case, but for most everyone else, it was all they could talk about, so I'm sure this was also partially his way of processing that.

Or it could be a way for the show to tell us...everything you said above. In other words, Don's not doing that because of his knowledge of the Speck case but the show means us to connect his dream to his desire to "kill" ALL of them.
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:17 pm (UTC)
Yeah, Megan and Jane crack me up. It's a classic story: they met their philandering husbands when they were philanderers and to some extent because they were philanderers.* And now they want them to turn that off.
Hee! Good point. Past performance is fact, a vow is words and feelings.

But if we accept that it's Don's nature to find monogamy nothing more than a helpful suggestion, we presume that he cannot change, right?

I don't excuse Don's infidelity to Betty, not in the least. But it is possible that Don's infidelity to Betty had something to do with Betty. And we've already seen that there are many ways in which Megan is not Betty.

Don's fever dream is representative of something within his consciousness. He dreams of sex with the woman from his past ... but he also dreams of killing her to protect what he has with Megan. I think that if the first half of that last sentence means something, then the second half does, too.
marymary
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:29 pm (UTC)
But it is possible that Don's infidelity to Betty had something to do with Betty. And we've already seen that there are many ways in which Megan is not Betty.

See, I think that's exactly what they (all four of them) cling to. They all think things will be different because the wife is different. The old partner is the salient and tempting scapegoat -- Don would love to believe it was only Betty he would cheat on.

In Don/Megan's case, what's different is a) the wife, AND b) Don's desire to change. (I'm not sure what I think about Roger's desire to stay faithful. Thoughts?)

He dreams of sex with the woman from his past ... but he also dreams of killing her to protect what he has with Megan. I think that if the first half of that last sentence means something, then the second half does, too.

I agree -- he's trying in a way we haven't seen before, and the dream is a (possibly too on the nose ;) metaphor. So the hope for them is that a new wife, plus a Don who's trying to chage, equals a different marriage.

Edited at 2012-04-09 06:33 pm (UTC)
tomfoolery815
Apr. 9th, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
AND b) Don's desire to change. (I'm not sure what I think about Roger's desire to stay faithful. Thoughts?)
I've never seen any indication fidelity means much to Roger. We saw Don display regret over breaking up his family, but I don't recall much remorse, if any, from Roger over what he did to Mona. Maybe it's different for Roger because he's older, had been married to Mona longer, and their daughter was a young adult?

The Roger-Jane age difference is even more substantial than the Don-Megan difference. And Jane seems to have little love for Roger; it's as if she knew, as much as Roger, that their marriage had very little to do with love. Megan seems to actually love Don.

My thought is that Roger is more likely to be unfaithful than Don.
gatsbyfan
Apr. 9th, 2012 07:00 pm (UTC)
Did you notice where Sally passed out (I'm calling it that, since her grandmother gave her half a Seconal)? Under the couch, and I'm presuming it's because she read that that's how the ninth nurse survived.
That and her grandmother had a HUGE knife. I'd be hiding from a woman taking pills talking and holding a knife in a house like that.

(I'm not sure what I think about Roger's desire to stay faithful. Thoughts?)
I wonder if it were Joan and not Jane if he would be more faithful. I think Roger needs a stronger woman. He fell out of love with Mona somewhere along the way, that's understandable. But I think he was looking for something to make him feel appreciated and young which is why he ended up with Jane. But Jane is not Joan and it's no wonder the relationship feel apart quickly.
marymary
Apr. 10th, 2012 01:32 am (UTC)
I wonder if it were Joan and not Jane if he would be more faithful. I think Roger needs a stronger woman.

Yeah. And I feel like maybe there's the irony. My take is that Joan loves Roger and at some point she could have had Roger but she chose not to take him. Because she's a strong woman with good instincts, she doesn't hope to change him and so she knows he'll always be Roger (a little crass, a little misogynist, a big cheater). So her strength is in her smarts. I don't know whether she's strong enough to control him, but she's strong enough to walk away. She's a survivor.

Greg is not a better man than Roger, but I think she loves him less and maybe she also felt more in control with Greg.
tomfoolery815
Apr. 10th, 2012 05:37 am (UTC)
There was so much to talk about in this episode that I forgot about my favorite line. Unsurprisingly, it's from Roger.

Peggy: So what do you want? How about something like "Mohawk: breaking the strike one flight at a time"? Or maybe "Fly over the picket line with Mohawk."
Roger: Hey, Trotsky, you're in advertising.
( 22 comments — Leave a comment )

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