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episode 9: the beautiful girls


Damn these short seasons for flying by entirely too quickly!

This week's episode:

Episode 9: The Beautiful Girls
Peggy receives a romantic gift that could compromise her career.

Comments

( 23 comments — Leave a comment )
marymary
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:15 am (UTC)
Ok, I'm really tired, but...

- Great episode!

- So funny! The whole Ida dying thing was so perfect -- they don't often do physical/visual comedy, but when they do it's so good. "My mother made that!" LOL

- The girl who plays Sally did such a great job.

- Love how Don, though he loves Sally, delegates her to the nearest woman. Betty was not nearly sympathetic enough to Sally and she's still not a good mom and I especially hated how she characterized Sally as a problem. But she's right that Don doesn't know the first thing about really taking care of Sally. So a tiny part of me loved that she said to Don "I'll pick her up tomorrow night."

- Loved Roger and Joan. That relationship is so real.

- Aw, I had such high hopes for Abe. Speaking of whom, I love love love how MM resists the urge to make the younger generation (e.g., "us") the righteous heroes of this universe. The complexity is fantastic and much appreciated. Of course Abe is right about civil rights and he's smart and his heart is in a good place. He is also an utter bonehead.
gatsbyfan
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:33 am (UTC)
Best line: 'I would have my secretary do it but she’s dead.'

The girl who plays Sally did such a great job
She really did. I love how much she looks up to her father.

Also:
What’s on this?
Mrs. Butterworth's
That’s rum, read labels


RIP, Mrs. Blackenship. I'll miss ya. And you lines. That’s the business of sadists and masochists and you know which one you are.

Poor, Bert. He seemed really lost.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the 37th floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut."


gatsbyfan
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:46 am (UTC)
But she's right that Don doesn't know the first thing about really taking care of Sally. So a tiny part of me loved that she said to Don "I'll pick her up tomorrow night."
Well the woman from the train would agree with you. Her look along with her Men never know what’s going on she looked like she enjoyed upsetting his day a little bit.

It's like Don isn't sure what to do with Sally. And he just assumes the woman will be better able to help her. Sally just wants her dad. Poor Faye looked so uncomfortable and the way she spoke to Sally you could tell she isn't around children and probably uncomfortable around them.

And Faye was right, it did seem like a test of sorts.

Joan & Roger=delightful.
That’s the problem. Every time I think back, all the good stuff was with you.
They make such a good couple. He truly cares about her. When he realizes that her husband is going to Vietnam, he wants to comfort her.
gatsbyfan
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:47 am (UTC)
Oh and last thing before I go to bed... I want to look as good as Joan in my pajamas.
marymary
Sep. 20th, 2010 02:04 pm (UTC)
Well the woman from the train would agree with you.

Ha ha, she would. But I don't entirely agree with her. :) I mean, Sally getting lost in the first place wasn't Don's fault and why would the woman think it was? He was clearly at work, assuming Sally was in school. But then he doesn't want to hear how from Betty how it happened, despite everyone's best intentions. He doesn't know and seems not to care how hard it is to take care of her and her brothers.

They make such a good couple. He truly cares about her.

It's hard to put into words why I like that relationship. Not in a "good/bad" way, but in a "real" way. It's just very accurate, IMO. They have a long history and it's complicated. They're past rehashing why they aren't together and there are no ill feelings about that. They've come around just living in the truth, regardless of everything else, which is that they have...something and it's never going away.

People in relationships like that can have contradictory feelings and they're mature (or wise?) enough to be ok with them. Roger never married Joan. He could have left Mona for Joan, not Jane, but he didn't. But Joan knows exactly how much he loves and depends on her. Joan loves her husband and she's devastated and terrified that he's going to Viet Nam. She considers Roger a ridiculous child half the time, and she doesn't hide it. But Roger knows exactly how much Joan loves him and that she'll never really leave him.

I thought the Faye thing was interesting. All signs, up till now, made me think she would be outstanding with children. With Don and the others in the office, she's so calm and wise and gentle. It was a surprise (to me) to learn that she's not comfortable with children. Really interesting, because clearly that's just her over-thinking and getting in her own way. Sally senses that Faye's a good person, which is why she initially likes her despite Faye's stiffness. I loved her lines. "Hello, Sally. My name is Faye."
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 04:28 pm (UTC)
All signs, up till now, made me think she would be outstanding with children.

Really? I've always found her kind of cold, actually. She's a good 'people manager', but children are often a different ball of wax.
marymary
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:07 pm (UTC)
Yeah, absolutely. I stand by my statement. :) Gosh, I've never thought of Faye as cold.

Her whole job is to understand people and how their minds work. And she's demonstrated that this isn't just a clinical/theoretical thing with her; she's good (wise, warm, understanding) with people.

She dealt kindly with the women who got emotional talking about face cream. :) She's the one who explained to Don that people feel better after they have a chance to talk about things. He disagreed, but then she listened to him "talk about things" without a hint of irony, until he felt better.

Among other things, Don told her about Sally (he hasn't told anyone else) and her response was that the most important thing is that Sally knows her father loves her. I think that shows pretty good priorities and an ability to take the child's perspective.

No, we had no evidence she'd be good at the job of managing children, but I had reason to believe she'd be calm, understanding and kind. But, as I said, I sort of love that we learned something new about her -- that her own defensiveness about not being a mother has sort of made her bad with children, despite her natural gifts.
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:21 pm (UTC)
Yeah, I can see what you're saying. Perhaps 'cold' was a poor choice of words - but I see a sort of 'distance' there - maybe it's reserved, or aloofness? It's not major (and not Nordic!), but especially when you contrast it with, let's say, Megan, who so naturally went down on the floor to help Sally, and while she was at first surprised that Sally flung her arms around her, seemed to be quite natural at holding and comforting her.

Maybe it's just that Faye doesn't seem at all touchy-feely to me, either physically, or in her attitude.

(wise, warm, understanding)

Absolutely - yet not touchy-feely. Does that make sense?

And I realize I'm doing a bit of comparing apples and oranges, since I'm talking about Megan with Sally, and kind of talking about Faye's interactions with adults, but it's definitely a different style.

Like, some teachers are get-down-on-the-floor-and-get-messy types, and others are write-on-the-chalkboard types, but neither of those styles make one a 'better' teacher than the other. It's just different.

I guess if I thought Faye would be good with children, it would be from a chalkboard perspective, not a floor perspective.

And also, I guess it would depend on the child! Everyone's personalities interact differently.
marymary
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:52 pm (UTC)
It's not major (and not Nordic!)

LOL!

Yeah, maybe what you're reacting to is that Faye's job puts her at a distance, naturally. She observes, reports, manages. Very school-teacherish, now that I think about it.

Hmmm...now I'm laughing thinking about the other women who might have been asked to take care of Sally. We already know what Betty's like with her (cold and slappy). Joan? Hard to say, but I don't think she'd as much as bend over. Or tolerate any kind of shenanigans. Peggy? Ack, I'm feeling like that might be a disaster and/or require therapy for somebody. Ida would at least have been amusing. I think she might have been surprisingly good because she's so disarming and maybe Sally wouldn't feel managed. But Ida would definitely lose her. Megan would be good, obviously.
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 07:47 pm (UTC)
Hmmm...now I'm laughing thinking about the other women who might have been asked to take care of Sally.

Yeah, like I mentioned to tom over on FB, what I loved the most about that moment was seeing everyone else behind Megan and Sally - and on every face was a realization of how they'd failed the situation. I think everyone saw that what Sally needed most at that moment was a hug - and no one else had even thought to handle it in that manner (and it wouldn't have been their style, either).


Ida would at least have been amusing. I think she might have been surprisingly good because she's so disarming and maybe Sally wouldn't feel managed.

Heh. That would be like House and kids. :-) Yeah, Ida is so direct, and seems to treat everyone on a level.


darn typos...you'd think I was typing on my iphone.

Edited at 2010-09-22 07:50 pm (UTC)
tomfoolery815
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:31 pm (UTC)
So funny! The whole Ida dying thing was so perfect -- they don't often do physical/visual comedy, but when they do it's so good. "My mother made that!" LOL
I laughed so hard, and for so long, that tears came out of my eyes. I laughed so hard that I paused the DVR to tweet that fact to Gatzy. I can't remember the last time I laughed 'til I cried.

Slow clap, please, for Vincent Kartheiser? Without being hammy, knowing he was going to be in the background of the shot, he was still hilarious! I also liked seeing Harry dart in and out, as if he realized he'd arrived too late to help.

-- they don't often do physical/visual comedy, but when they do it's so good.
It's as if, as C.J. said to Albie Duncan, they just want to show that they have that club in their bag.

- The girl who plays Sally did such a great job.
ITA. Reminds me of Anna Paquin in The Piano or Natalie Portman in The Professional, i.e. frighteningly good for someone so young.

Anybody else notice/think that she's starting to sound like Betty now? Which, if intended, is a nice touch by Kiernan Shipka ... and chilling for Sally.

Edited at 2010-09-20 04:35 pm (UTC)
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 04:33 pm (UTC)
Slow clap, please, for Vincent Kartheiser? Without being hammy, knowing he was going to be in the background of the shot, he was still hilarious!

YES. That was his only moment in the show, but it was awesome. I actually rewound just to watch it again.

It's as if, as C.J. said to Albie Duncan, they just want to show that they have that club in their bag.

And they absolutely do. Because he's so good at this, I'm always just a little bit amazed at how good Jon Hamm is at comedy. (Not that it was his moment here, but yeah - the club's definitely in the bag.)

tomfoolery815
Sep. 22nd, 2010 04:43 pm (UTC)
I can't believe I haven't rewatched it yet, actually. :-)

And I am quite glad you brought this GIF to the party. :-)
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:26 pm (UTC)
This GIF needs to be brought to every party.

Trufax.
tomfoolery815
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:44 pm (UTC)
Of course Abe is right about civil rights and he's smart and his heart is in a good place. He is also an utter bonehead.
His actions suggest "If she reads this, she'll quit her job and go to Selma with me," don't they? Stunningly naive. I think the overwhelming majority of us don't change our minds about the world overnight.

As ham-handed as he was -- referencing Nuremburg? (cue Seth and Amy) Really, Abe? -- he did have an impact. Peggy was put off initially, but she thought about it and tried a first step with the suggestion of Harry Belafonte.

The complexity is fantastic and much appreciated.
A lesser show, a broadcast-network show, would've had Peggy see the light immediately. But that's not how AMC rolls. So yes, much appreciated. :)
tomfoolery815
Sep. 20th, 2010 04:58 pm (UTC)
It's hard to put into words why I like that relationship.
I don't know Mary, you hit the nail squarely on the head there. :) That is precisely where they're at.

Roger was hitting on her until he found out Dr. Harris is off to Vietnam, then he stopped flirting and was sweet to her. I believe that he was trying only to be a friend. Not that, in their post-mugging terror, he objected in the least to sex with her.

But then, post-coitus, he's apologetic, even though she kissed him, told him to not stop and gave him substantial incentive to not stop.

Loved Joan's response, though. "I'm not sorry, but I am married, and so are you." Doesn't regret acting on impulse -- tacitly acknowledging that, given the special nature of their friendship, something like that was a possibility -- but insists the order of things must be restored. Classic Joan, really.
marymary
Sep. 20th, 2010 05:25 pm (UTC)
His actions suggest "If she reads this, she'll quit her job and go to Selma with me," don't they? Stunningly naive. I think the overwhelming majority of us don't change our minds about the world overnight.

As ham-handed as he was -- referencing Nuremburg? (cue Seth and Amy) Really, Abe? -- he did have an impact. Peggy was put off initially, but she thought about it and tried a first step with the suggestion of Harry Belafonte. ...A lesser show, a broadcast-network show, would've had Peggy see the light immediately.


Right, and I also think -- and this is the essence of my view -- that the show is not saying that Abe's view is the goal. I don't think it's suggesting that Peggy will eventually agree with Abe.

I think they're showing Don as one end of the spectrum ("Our job isn't to make (the client) like Negroes. Our job is to make men like (the client.)") And Abe on the other end of the spectrum (essentially, "Who cares whether you lose the career you've fought for, your clients are racists and you'll be better off without this job.")

Peggy is in the middle and I think we're meant to see her as the most reasonable. She is disturbed by racism and she questions the firm's tacit support. But she also recognizes that she deserves to keep her career and that racism isn't the only "ism" to be fought. That she, in her way, is fighting sexism.

Like I said, this is a consistent strength of the show, IMO. I'm remembering Don in Midge's apartment, with her hipster friends laughing at him and his slavish service to the establishment. Don's parting shot is that the difference between them is that HE (Don) can walk out of the apartment, past the cops in the hall and they can't. So who's empowered and who's not?
tomfoolery815
Sep. 20th, 2010 05:52 pm (UTC)
Right, and I also think -- and this is the essence of my view -- that the show is not saying that Abe's view is the goal. I don't think it's suggesting that Peggy will eventually agree with Abe.
Right. I don't think the show is saying that, either. She tried it out, but she didn't push hard for it, because Don pointed out that that's not what they do. If you're going to be in advertising -- and that's where she's at, where she wants to be -- you serve the client.

Peggy made an excellent point that she's busy fighting her own battle. White liberal men like Abe want to fight for blacks, which is noble in an 80-20 way, but she points out that what Negroes can't have, she can't have, either, and "no one seems to care." He responds, patronizingly, that "All right, Peggy. We'll have a civil rights march for women." As if her struggle wasn't worth anybody else's time. He says it's just discourse, but it's deeply insulting to who Peggy is.

Don's parting shot is that the difference between them is that HE (Don) can walk out of the apartment, past the cops in the hall and they can't. So who's empowered and who's not?
Good example. The show refudiates (wink) the nostalgic glorification of the beatniks in the early '60s and the young idealists of the mid-'60s. There wasn't a revolution because the majority of Americans didn't -- and here's the essence of my view -- change their minds about the status quo overnight. Most of them didn't change their minds at all.

Edited at 2010-09-20 05:57 pm (UTC)
tomfoolery815
Sep. 22nd, 2010 05:29 am (UTC)
Poor, Bert. He seemed really lost.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the 37th floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut."

That was lovely. All the more poignant in light of them having been lovers.

Meanwhile, how is it that the Cooper in Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, does not have his own office? Where is he to ruminate? But seriously, their office is that small?

I loved her lines. "Hello, Sally. My name is Faye."
That was great. Especially when she said it the second time. :)
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 07:57 pm (UTC)
Poor, Bert. He seemed really lost.
She was born in 1898 in a barn. She died on the 37th floor of a skyscraper. She's an astronaut."
That was lovely. All the more poignant in light of them having been lovers.


I'd forgotten about that part.


And that puts another spin on the Roger/Joan interactions in this ep, too.
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 04:37 pm (UTC)
I just realized that Randee Heller (Ida) played the mom in The Karate Kid.

Awesome.

She was really, really good.
marymary
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:09 pm (UTC)
Meanwhile, how is it that the Cooper in Sterling Cooper Draper Pryce, does not have his own office? Where is he to ruminate? But seriously, their office is that small?

I know! I feel like I've missed something too, Tom.

And ITA about Faye introducing herself to Sally a SECOND time. Sally's "wtf?" face was priceless. :)

Edited at 2010-09-22 06:11 pm (UTC)
flippet
Sep. 22nd, 2010 06:24 pm (UTC)

I know! I feel like I've missed something too, Tom.


Wasn't Cooper sitting in the lobby without shoes at one point, reading a magazine? That would explain that. :-)
( 23 comments — Leave a comment )

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