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episode 13: tomorrowland

And Season 4 comes to an end. 

BOO.

This week we discuss:

Episode 13: Tomorrowland

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( 31 comments — Leave a comment )
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gatsbyfan
Oct. 18th, 2010 03:04 am (UTC)
I KNEW IT! Joan didn't have the abortion.

Also, who didn't see Megan becoming the next Mrs. Draper as soon as Don asked her to go to California.

I loved Peggy's reaction to Don's news. Better still, Peggy and Joan chatting about it.

I love this show.
marymary
Oct. 18th, 2010 04:20 am (UTC)
I agree, gatz, one shot of Megan and the kids and I knew that was a done deal.

Plus, I've always felt it was very dangerous for Faye to know Don's secret. With Faye, he has to live with it every day. She knows he's Dick, so he can't really be Don. With her, he's on the edge of his doom every day. Moreover, Faye is pushing him to come out -- probably right, psychologically, but it's the thing that terrifies Don most.

Don protests that Megan doesn't really know him, but Megan says, "I know who you are now." That, for me, was proof of the toxic secret thing. By getting rid of Faye, Don reverts to Don Draper.

Best Line: "So you're not going to put an ad in the New York Times, saying you never really liked me?"

So I did feel like Megan was inevitable, especially from the start of the California trip. (I LOLed at "Maria von Trapp.") BUT I did not see the fast engagement coming. In fact, I truly thought that scene wasn't real. I was sure it was someone dreaming. But then I realized Megan wouldn't dream Anna's engagement ring. And Don can't dream in French. So I had to rewind and watch the whole thing again, because I hadn't been taking it seriously! Wow.

I actually did think Carla was wrong to let Glenn up to Sally's room, but Carla was acting out of compassion and Betty firing Carla was such utter bullshit. I like how both Henry and Don are on Carla's side.

Though I was confused about Don not re-hiring Carla to take her to California. Betty had no power to stop him from doing that. It would have been the right thing to do and good for the kids, to have that time with her.

What struck me about the Glenn and Sally scene was what Glenn said before he entered her room: "You decent?" That, right there, sort of captures the thing that pings Betty's radar. He's too...adult, too glib and frank. On a kid that young, it's really unnerving.

Edited at 2010-10-18 04:39 am (UTC)
marymary
Oct. 18th, 2010 04:35 am (UTC)
I thought the conversation between Joan and Peggy was really interesting. I totally get why they both feel a little unappreciated, in general. But I did think that Don's enthusiasm about the Topaz deal was genuine and appropriate. And she can't expect him NOT to be excited about his engagement.

But the telling thing is that Peggy makes it about Megan being pretty. She starts out by saying the company should be more excited about the new client than the engagement. That's a reasonable point. But then she makes it about her vs. a "pretty girl." (Ironically, she's talking to the prettiest woman in the office (IMO), one who had a very serious affair with Roger Sterling.)

What I got from that is that she's jealous of anyone who's deeply involved with Don -- I think she can't quite sort out her feelings. When she's with Don, she can't pick apart the boss from the mentor from the potential romantic partner. She wants to define herself as a professional, but then her feelings about work stuff are affected by her identity as a woman. She's got a lot all muddled together in her head.
tomfoolery815
Oct. 18th, 2010 07:01 pm (UTC)
What I got from that is that she's jealous of anyone who's deeply involved with Don -- I think she can't quite sort out her feelings. When she's with Don, she can't pick apart the boss from the mentor from the potential romantic partner. She wants to define herself as a professional, but then her feelings about work stuff are affected by her identity as a woman. She's got a lot all muddled together in her head.
Maybe, Mary. She looks up to him, she knows he's been crucial in her career development, she demands respect from him, she has lingering doubts about his appreciation of her, she's attracted to him in the way that success and skill make people attractive. All at once, simultaneously? Yes, probably.

It seems to come down to Don stole her thunder, trumped her news. She might be overstating it that she saved the company, but it is substantial, what she did. However, as you point out, she can't expect Don to not be excited about his engagement.

She's got a lot all muddled together in her head.
So much so that she ruins Don's compliment for herself.

That was an incredibly nice thing he said to her, when some people -- most people, IMO -- might be so wrapped up in their own moment, their own ecstatic joy, that they might not have room for someone else. (Understandably.) It's indicative of how special Peggy is to Don that he carved out a little space for her in his bliss. Besides being genuinely happy that she brought in new business, he talks to her about admiration and spark.
tomfoolery815
Oct. 18th, 2010 07:10 pm (UTC)
Better still, Peggy and Joan chatting about it.
That was a great scene.

(Ironically, she's talking to the prettiest woman in the office (IMO), one who had a very serious affair with Roger Sterling.)

It's interesting, what Joan says to Dr. Rapist Greg:

"And he's smiling like a fool, like he's the first man that ever married his secretary. She's 25! As if that's news!"

I thought she was genuinely happy for Don when he made his announcement. I rewound; it seems to be a genuine smile. I suspect some kind of covering-her-tracks motive in talking of Don's engagement so disdainfully.

I KNEW IT! Joan didn't have the abortion.
How's she going to explain it when the baby comes out with silver hair?
marymary
Oct. 18th, 2010 10:59 pm (UTC)
she's attracted to him in the way that success and skill make people attractive. All at once, simultaneously? Yes, probably.

Yeah, I like the way you describe that. I don't think she wants to sleep with him. But there are lots of feelings that don't fit neatly into "admiration" or "respect" or "love" or "lust." So I think (especially based on her fit of pique, into which she dragged Megan's looks) she can't sort out how she feels. She seems to care only about Don's approval and she's overly irritated that he's engaged, IMO. Maybe there's something in there about her identity as a woman, which has to be very confused for someone like her, in that time.

She's got a lot all muddled together in her head.
So much so that she ruins Don's compliment for herself.


Exactly.

I thought she was genuinely happy for Don when he made his announcement. I rewound; it seems to be a genuine smile.

I agree. It was a very "assessing" look, like she was seeing something in him for the first time. She was waaay ahead of everyone else in the room (knowing Megan's last name helps) and seemed...pleased.

So yeah, I don't know what to think of her conversation with Greg. Maybe she's of two minds. Maybe part of her is happy for them, but she also takes some satisfaction in setting her marriage above Don's (seeing her own as more a marriage of equals than Don's -- a powerful exec marrying his secretary).

How's she going to explain it when the baby comes out with silver hair?

LOL. :)

Normally, I'd say Roger will take a "Pete" approach to it. Pete had NO intention of rocking the boat of his life to find his biological son. But Roger really loves Joan and seems a bit weary of Jane. I can see him being a little more pulled in the baby's direction.
gatsbyfan
Oct. 19th, 2010 12:26 am (UTC)
Okay, since I have a moment now and since I've seen at least one critic mention it and my coworker did too I don't feel like a nutjob for mentioning this...

I thought it was interesting that the show ended playing "I Got You Babe". In my mind I immediately flashed to Groundhog Day and I was wondering if maybe Weiner and Company did that as an homage to the movie.

The whole season was about starting fresh. Betty has a new husband and now a new house. Don has a new apartment, a new company, and now a new fiance. But things aren't really working out for them. Betty is finding that she's just as unhappy. And Don's company is falling apart. Could we have expected Cooper to leave last week?

When Don looked over at that window and the song came on I immediately flashed to Phil reliving February 2nd over again and again. Because even though Megan has more ambition (and smarts?) than Betty, I wonder if she won't become Betty 2.0. I wonder if we won't find Don reverting back to his old behaviors of drinking and cheating on his woman.

A couple of us at work were talking this afternoon and think that when the show returns next summer we're going to see them jump ahead to 1967 or 1968.
gatsbyfan
Oct. 19th, 2010 12:36 am (UTC)
What I got from that is that she's jealous of anyone who's deeply involved with Don -
I think you're right Mary. I was also wondering if she was sort of upset for not being told earlier. She feels close to Don. Walking into his office and seeing the celebration was probably a shock. Especially after the night they shared when Anna died.

But Roger really loves Joan and seems a bit weary of Jane. I can see him being a little more pulled in the baby's direction.
I agree. My gut feeling is Greg isn't coming back from Vietnam. If he doesn't come back people will be less concerned about counting the months than they are with helping out a young widow with a small child.

As for Roger, I was disappointed that we didn't see more of him last night. But considering how bad things have been for him lately, maybe that's a good thing.

Though he did have one of my favorite lines: "Did you get Cancer?"

marymary
Oct. 19th, 2010 01:29 am (UTC)
Megan has more ambition (and smarts?) than Betty, I wonder if she won't become Betty 2.0. I wonder if we won't find Don reverting back to his old behaviors of drinking and cheating on his woman.

I do think Megan and Betty are very different. I agree that Megan is smart and can sort of smell her emancipation as a woman and (most importantly) has a very soft heart. (She's not happy, she's French. :) She's fundamentally different, IMO. But I agree about Don. I think Megan will stay Megan, but I don't know whether that will be enough to change Don.

I mean, he literally sent his serious girlfriend off on a short trip and was ENGAGED to ANOTHER WOMAN within a couple days. While still in a relationship with the serious girlfriend. I don't know that he's capable of monogamy. He felt strongly about Faye, and she's arguably the best partner he's ever had, yet he left her in a heartbeat. AFTER he slept with Megan several times and had already proposed to her. He couldn't wait to propose until he got home and broke up with Faye? What a silly question. He can't ever wait one minute to sleep with any woman he happens to want. I'm sure the ring felt like the least of his betrayals. Faye was literally the last to know.

I often wonder at the fact that we all don't hate Don. That's good acting...or something.

My gut feeling is Greg isn't coming back from Vietnam. If he doesn't come back people will be less concerned about counting the months than they are with helping out a young widow with a small child.

Yeah, our guts agree. I think, without Greg in the way and a baby to bring them together, Roger will want to be with Joan.

But I think it's possible Joan will resist him. She's such a survivor and he's sincere, but not trustworthy. She might find it too risky to her heart and her child to invest in Roger. /way way ahead of myself

A couple of us at work were talking this afternoon and think that when the show returns next summer we're going to see them jump ahead to 1967 or 1968.

I can't decide what I think. That's a total jump of 8 years, right? It would be interesting, but I sort of hate the jumps. I like to see their futures, but I always feel like I miss a lot. Plus, it would be sad to lose Kiernan Shipka. :(
flippet
Oct. 21st, 2010 06:45 pm (UTC)
Plus, it would be sad to lose Kiernan Shipka. :(

That's annoyed me, actually - because they began the show in 1959, right? And now it's 1965? That's 6 years. But yet, Don (or someone, I forget) said this year that Sally was 10. She wasn't 4 when the show started...she would have had to be 6, and I thought at the time that she was more like 7 or 8.

And it annoys me because even though I guess Kiernan is actually still 10? She seems much older, and I think she could play 12 or 13, no problem. Just say it, and make it so. ;-)
gatsbyfan
Oct. 19th, 2010 01:43 am (UTC)
think Megan will stay Megan, but I don't know whether that will be enough to change Don.
Oh, I agree. I don't think Megan will completely change. But I think she has a different image of Don. She has to know that he's cheated before if she didn't know about Faye.

I often wonder at the fact that we all don't hate Don. That's good acting...or something.
No kidding. I want to hate him but I just can't bring myself to it. Damn you Jon Hamm for making him so likable.

But I think it's possible Joan will resist him. She's such a survivor and he's sincere, but not trustworthy. She might find it too risky to her heart and her child to invest in Roger. /way way ahead of myself
I could see that too. I could see her being more wary of him. He had his chance with her and he blew it. He would have to do some major work to get her back.

that's a total jump of 8 years, right? It would be interesting, but I sort of hate the jumps. I like to see their futures, but I always feel like I miss a lot. Plus, it would be sad to lose Kiernan Shipka. :(
Well, "I Got You Babe" came out in 1965 so we are really only talking about a jump of two years or so. Which is possible for Kiernan. (I love Sally)

Two to three years means Glen can come back driving. The actor playing is 13 now.

That would allow them to skip over Don's wedding (if he actually marries Megan).
marymary
Oct. 19th, 2010 03:25 am (UTC)
She has to know that he's cheated before...

Hah, yeah, let's think about Megan's understanding of Don vs. Betty's understanding of Don when they married. Betty probably had only a vague understanding of Don's romantic past when they married. On the day they got back to the office, Megan took the calls from Faye and knew that, once Don took the call, he'd break up with her. So Megan knew that he currently had a girlfriend when he proposed to her.

But, like many women, she probably thinks she's the exception -- his one true love. So suddenly he's reformed and he won't sleep around anymore. I think she'd better keep a job at SCDP.

I want to hate him but I just can't bring myself to it. Damn you Jon Hamm for making him so likable.

I don't like him, but I do...enjoy it when he works his magic. I guess I admire him for his talents and I like to watch him work. And I sympathize with his identity thing and I don't want him to get caught.

I sometimes think we like Don because of the show's relationship with Don. The show likes Don, while still showing all his flaws. The show lets us see all his moments of fear and weakness and compassion (Anna, the kids), so we see him much more intimately than any other character.

Sometimes my...I would call it "balanced" ;-) view of Betty comes from the fact that "we like Don," and "we don't like Betty," after YEARS of watching Don lie and cheat and cheat and cheat on her. Do you remember the psychiatrist? How he hired that horrible man who made her feel worse? Don made her go, then spied on her? Ugh. How, in the end, she's the bad guy is sometimes beyond me.

Sometimes I think it's sexism -- she's supposed to be warm and sweet, but she's not. Don is easily as cold as Betty, especially at work, but he's a man.

Then sometimes I think it's their treatment of the children -- he's much kinder to them than Betty is, and that triggers a strong response in the viewer.

Maybe it's the Ted Danson effect. Maybe John Hamm is a really nice guy and January Jones is a bitch and we're reacting to the person under the role?

Sorry, rambling now... :) I don't know the answer.
tomfoolery815
Oct. 19th, 2010 03:38 am (UTC)
He couldn't wait to propose until he got home and broke up with Faye? What a silly question. He can't ever wait one minute to sleep with any woman he happens to want. I'm sure the ring felt like the least of his betrayals.
It was pointed out ... somewhere today that Dick/Don is more than a little impulsive. Especially with life-altering decisions, such as changing from Dick to Don.

I sometimes think we like Don because of the show's relationship with Don. The show likes Don, while still showing all his flaws. The show lets us see all his moments of fear and weakness and compassion (Anna, the kids), so we see him much more intimately than any other character.
I think this is a huge part of it, Mary. Because we get a panoramic view of Don, we're predisposed to be ... if not sympathetic, then perhaps understanding of him and his actions. Not approving, necessarily. But here, four seasons in, we aren't all that shocked at this or that action because we're the only ones who see all sides of Dick/Don.
tomfoolery815
Oct. 19th, 2010 03:55 am (UTC)
I actually did think Carla was wrong to let Glenn up to Sally's room, but Carla was acting out of compassion and Betty firing Carla was such utter bullshit. I like how both Henry and Don are on Carla's side.
I loved Henry calling her on her crap. He's right about firing the nanny they've had since birth being incredibly disruptive to the kids.

It was a telling comment at the end by Henry: "No one is ever on your side." That's meant, obviously, that she comes down on the wrong side of almost everything. But now that I think about it ... when has anybody taken Betty's side in this series? Seriously.

Though I was confused about Don not re-hiring Carla to take her to California. Betty had no power to stop him from doing that. It would have been the right thing to do and good for the kids, to have that time with her.
That was odd. But at that point it was all about Betty. Addressing her need to banish Carla from the kingdom.

There's something oddly fitting in having her impulsive act set in motion Don's impulsive act.
flippet
Oct. 21st, 2010 06:49 pm (UTC)
It was a telling comment at the end by Henry: "No one is ever on your side." That's meant, obviously, that she comes down on the wrong side of almost everything. But now that I think about it ... when has anybody taken Betty's side in this series? Seriously.

I loved that, too. Great double meaning.
tomfoolery815
Oct. 19th, 2010 04:14 am (UTC)
Weiner gave his kid a great line to deliver: "Just because you’re sad, doesn’t mean everybody else has to be."

That idea -- Betty's unhappy, so no one else gets to be happy, either -- does seem to have some truth to it, yes? What do you guys think?
marymary
Oct. 19th, 2010 04:20 am (UTC)
There's something oddly fitting in having her impulsive act set in motion Don's impulsive act.

Wow, good point!

It was a telling comment at the end by Henry: "No one is ever on your side."

Huh, you know how I took that? I thought he was being sarcastic. Like, "Betty, you're always playing the victim. You always think everyone is attacking you." Like it was about her mindset, not that people aren't actually ever on her side.

But now that I think about it ... when has anybody taken Betty's side in this series? Seriously.

Well now I'm thinking about this. Very interesting. Her neigbbor friend...and Henry. And most recently, Dr. Edna. (Carla? Until she got fired? IDK.) But yeah, if you look at those close to her -- Don and the kids and her family -- not so many Betty supporters.
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